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« Happy birthday to me | Main | Salmon Cakes ... and other things »Wednesday, April 25, 2007
This week
Sunday morning, bright and early, I've got a 5K to run. It's in a Chicago neighborhood - as opposed to downtown or the Lakefront - and it's a flat, fast course. I don't know if it's because the 10-mile race in May will be here before I know it, or if it's all the training I'm doing, but I'm not thinking much about this race. I'm totally freaked out about the Soldier Field 10 miler. "Freaked out" is probably a lame description to designate the state of things over here. Ten miles. I really don't know if I'm going to be ready for it. The next six weeks need to find me bearing down the hatches and doing some serious training, waaaay more than I have been. Gah. Why did I sign up for this thing again? I managed to gain only a half-pound from my Birthday Weekend, it which contained several yummy sandwiches, pastas, alcohol, pizza, sweets ... I didn't binge on any of it, mind you, I just went ahead and ordered what I wanted, whatever sounded good. I can tell you that by Monday I was ready to get back into the swing of things. My stomach, good Lord, she can only handle that kind of eating anymore on an annual basis. Oh, but bread. How I missed you so! Crackly, crunchy, warm, crispy, yeasty bread. With olive oil. And Parmesan cheese. I've been tossing around in my head an entry about people's use of the word "skinny." My recent weight loss has found me the recipient of that word being used to describe me, which, not a big shocker, isn't apt whatsoever. At 5'2, 146.5 pounds doesn't make you "skinny." It does not even make you thin. It doesn't make you obese, but there are people out there who think I need to lose another 30 pounds. Which I ain't doing, but you get my point. But when you lose weight, more often than not, someone will describe you as "skinny." And while I know it's just become a fall back term that's used to encourage and approve, "skinny" also seems like such a loaded term to me. I'm really trying not to overthink this, because, as I said, it's a word used with a positive intent. But I don't know that I've ever wanted to be "skinny," anyway. I had a tall, very thin friend who once told me that people constantly called her "skinny," and it upset her. She desperately tried to gain weight, and was horribly self-conscious about her shape. "You wouldn't go up to someone and say 'Gosh you're so fat!' so I've never understood why people think it's OK to talk about how 'skinny' I am," she said. That made a lot of sense to me, as "skinny" seems to be the opposite extreme on the spectrum of "fat." And I know we're all "taking back fat" like we did "bitch," but I'm not speaking in terms of how we weight-loss/body-acceptance types use the word. Just how society in general uses it. Like I said, I'm trying not to overthink this, and I know I'm on the verge of doing so, and so I shall quit. This all may be due in part to me becoming self-conscious of my body again, as it's more "out there" for commentary. But I really do wonder whether certain words trigger other people as they do me. I'm going to open the comments on this, but for a limited-time only, and they'll all be monitored as usual. What do you guys think? Posted by Erin at 02:41 PM | filed under: Random comments"Skinny" does seem like a loaded word to me...it doesn't sound healthy, I think is what bothers me, and isn't that what we're all after (looking and feeling healthy)? posted by: Denise at April 25, 2007 05:24 PM A former co-worker said he quit commenting on people's weight loss when someone told him they had lost all that weight because they'd been gravely ill. If he noticed someone lost weight, he'd ask if they felt okay. posted by: Sarah at April 25, 2007 06:47 PM Thank you for this post. I am around the same height and weight as you, and have been struggling to lose my quit smoking 25 pounds for a while now. I've had weight issues most of my adult life, but the "skinny" comments really hit home. There was a time several years ago when I was going through a very trying and stressful situation and I dropped down to 95 pounds. I looked and felt terrible, but I got SOOO many comments and COMPLIMENTS on how skinny I was. I felt like the weight loss was beyond my control and people were praising me...So messed up! posted by: Anne L. at April 25, 2007 09:53 PM I am anything but skinny and have been overweight all my life. However, for a short period of time (1993-1998) I was considerably thinner than I am right now. During what I think of as my "thin" period, I was thrilled to be a size 8-10. However, it made me feel very self conscious when my boyfriend called me skinny. It was almost like it negated the work I had done to get where I was. posted by: Mary at April 25, 2007 10:11 PM i don't think i've ever really thought of skinny as being a positive word. i think slim is what i'd use if i wanted to say something nice about someone who was (not disgustingly) thin and looking good. posted by: haya at April 26, 2007 05:48 AM You know your comments aren't open much and I read some of your entries and see that the reason is prehaps there are people out there who have bad things to say to you. I I for one LOVE reading you as I think you are doing so great and help motivate me to continue down the path/journey in losing weight. I love reading the success stories and love to cheer people on -- thinking I too can do it! People are petty - gah. I for one think of you as an inspiration and YOU GO GIRL!! :) Longtime fan, Christy posted by: Christy at April 26, 2007 09:30 AM The problem as I see it is there isn't an in-between word. You're skinny or you're fat, but there isn't really a word for being normal or slightly overweight. You can't just say "You look so normal/average/not-really-fat-but-not-really-thin!" and have it make any kind of sense. Lately I've been referring to my self as thin or at least "thinner" simply because I don't *feel* fat anymore, despite the fact that I still have a pooch and wear size 14 jeans. I realize this might seem odd to some people, but considering how fat I used to be I really am thin in comparison. posted by: PastaQueen at April 26, 2007 11:17 AM That last person who called me skinny was trying to sell me cookies. I didn't buy them. posted by: Deirdre at April 26, 2007 12:00 PM I've come to the point where I really try just to keep my big mouth shut about people's appearances regarding their weight or size. I get very uncomfortable when anyone comments on mine, and it was at the worst when I lost a bunch of weight due to a massive upheaval in my personal life when I was too depressed to lift a fork and suddenly people treated me like I'd had an extreme supermodel makeover of gorgeousness. I just wanted them to shut up and leave me alone. Skinny, for me, in that case, meant miserable, unhealthy, and gross, but in everyone else's mind it seemed to be a big old positive. I think that people can become "skinny" for lots of reasons, many of them not good, and for everyone to treat that word like the magic compliment is just ignorant. However, sometimes I catch myself saying, "Hey, skinny minnie!" to a friend who has obviously lost weight, and then I kick myself, because in their mind it might not be a compliment and because it's really none of my business. posted by: Eliza at April 26, 2007 04:25 PM "Skinny" is a hostile word to me. It's an accusation. It's skin and bones, not the healthy fit person that I strive to be. The only time I get called skinny is when someone is trying to pressure me to eat something unhealthy. "Oh you can afford to eat this cause you're sooo skinny!" WTF? I am not skinny at all and haven't been since puberty hit. posted by: Virg at April 26, 2007 05:26 PM My thesis tackles, kinda, the very problem that Pasta Queen identified. There's totally a binary and no way to really describe people who are smaller-than-before but still culturally not "skinny" or even culturally still considered "fat." At 5'2 and 146, even though the BMI calculator calls you "overweight," I think it's a stretch to call yourself fat, though. posted by: Alison at April 26, 2007 05:32 PM You guys are all so awesome. Keep the comments coming! (I've only had one asshole comment thus far, and that person seems to live for haunting my blog for opportunities to bash me, even if he hates it so. Such self-loathing, I swear!) I am starting to wonder if it's our need to have some word to describe ourselves, our place in society, since "fat" seemed to encapsulate so much for us. Like, if we said we were "fat," it implied something about ourselves, more than just the state of our bodies. And again, it's word we've "taken back" so we have a lot more ease in using it as a self-descriptor. It's almost as if we have a pathological need to HAVE A WORD TO DESCRIBE ME AGAIN! GAH! Heh. I don't know. Just more rambling I suppose ... posted by: Erin at April 26, 2007 06:05 PM There was a time when I WANTED to be "skinny" (early adolescence) but it's so difficult, now, to conceive of anybody calling me that. Doesn't matter what I weigh, I don't have the body type that gets called skinny. Even at my goal weight (which is about 20 pounds away) I will still have breasts and hips. And sturdy legs. And that's fine. I live an active life and I need to be able to pick up heavy boxes, and drive a spade into the ground, and generally apply force to objects without hurting myself. It's not so easy if you're genuinely skinny. I had a roommate once who was very slim, perfectly healthy, but couldn't move her bed when something rolled behind it. That's not what I want. My trigger word, by the way, is "plump". I'd much rather be called fat than plump. Plump is passive and squidgy. Babies are plump, and so are pillows. posted by: K at April 26, 2007 06:25 PM I think if anyone finds themselves with a need to describe another person's body in a complimentary way, they should stick with "good." You look good! Lookin' good! Or "hot stuff." Hot stuff works too. Of course, the problem with "good" is that if you're fat or you've gained wait, you're bad and wrong and terrible. There is no way to win this. You're still hot stuff, though. posted by: anne at April 26, 2007 06:32 PM I've been struggling with a comment on this topic, and it's been hard, which I think indicates that "skinny" is a heavy word. I agree with a lot of what's been said here. I think the word "skinny" has a negative tone to it in a lot of contexts. It's a tough word. I don't know ... I'm 5'1 and about 110 pounds, and I don't call myself skinny. I'm athletic and active, so I feel like "skinny" doesn't really apply. I used to be thinner, and people would call me "skinny" to my face, and I always felt like I was being attacked - which is part of why I think it's incredibly rude to comment on a person's body or weight, especially if you don't know them well. posted by: Hanna at April 26, 2007 09:06 PM I think "skinny" is almost always meant as a compliment and the times when it isn't, it's either neutral (when watching Lost this week, I thought "Gosh, Sun is tiny"--I was struck by this fact but not in a negative way--and I could have used the word "skinny" and meant the same) or used out of jealousy. I agree (I think) with your friend in principle that the issue here is people feeling free to pass judgment on women's bodies to far too great an extent, and that this is rude regardless of whether the value judgment is "skinny" or "fat." Nobody else should feel they have a right to determine whether your body is "good enough" for them. I hope someday we live in a world where this is is instinctively understood. But in practice I have to say that your friend's complaint falls into the "world's tiniest violin" category for me. I have heard the argument that your friend made many times, "You wouldn't call someone fat, so why is it OK to call them skinny?" and the reason is because it's not as bad to call someone skinny as it is to call someone fat, period. Basically I recommend that people on the receiving end of "skinny" count their blessings. We live in an imperfect world where people are jealous when they should be just plain happy for others, and where they take one's successes as indictments of their own shortcomings, and weight is only one area where this manifests itself. If a couple of people calling you "skinny" (whether because they're attempting to compliment you and are being imprecise, or because they are bringing their own baggage to the conversation) is the price a thin woman pays for fitting an ideal, then it could sure be a lot worse. Frankly I think this discussion (not just here, the generic "persecuted thin woman" discussion) devalues the crap and ugliness that is usually reserved for the fat and almost never implied when someone is called "skinny." This may be a rather unenlightened view these days, but I took a hard look at how I really felt about this issue and this is where I arrived. posted by: spacedcowgirl at April 27, 2007 10:42 AM I think the word skinny implies envy. It's supposedly to be complimentary but it's an accusation, a reflection of the speaker's body image anxiety, a validation that gaunt is beautiful in our culture. It also seems to imply ease. Maybe people who have lost weight don't want to be labelled as such because they are aware about how hard it can be, of where they came from and of how fleeting 'skinny' can sometimes be. Is it more dismissive as well? It's like skinny implies that you've got the willpower someone fat doesn't. The implications that make the word hard to handle are not just about the thinness but about other's lack of thinness maybe. posted by: fishtail at April 27, 2007 10:58 AM Wow, you quoted my mother exactly. She has always been 'skinny', and she would get very offended when the other mothers would say that about her. I believe that even though fat and skinny are the two extremes, skinny has a positive meaning. I believe this is because people view 'fat' as a disorder, an addiction to food...and that you have no will power. If your 'too skinny' all you have to do is eat a big mac for lunch, and ice cream before bed....if your fat, you have to set goals, and keep your self motivated to get your body where you want it to be... Good post btw! I took a stab at commenting with some valuable input, but, who knows :-)) LK posted by: Laurie at April 27, 2007 11:51 AM When people try to describe other people, I think they tend to start off with the most identifying characteristic: blonde or dark hair; skinny or fat (or 'big'); tall or short, black or white or hispanic; older or younger, etc. (or any combination of the above). I think that's just human nature. I also can't deny that we (women) have been ingrained since girlhood (at least in the last 50 years in America) to see 'skinny' as being the more desirable label. As much as I know it's wrong and disagree with it, I admit there's still a part of my mind that still falls victim to it. Damn you, cultural expectations! Besides the fact that it's impossible to have the body I had a 20 and 30 and even 40 (time, pregnancy, gravity and menopause will have their way), I still want to look good for my age. (I am 53 and your height and weight, Erin.) Now, I just want to be healthy so I can be around for as long as possible. I work out 4-5 times a week, and have been pretty active my whole life. But now I have to eat half as much and work out twice as often to just hold the course. Bah. Not long ago I was in an Osco and overheard a woman describing an employee (who had helped her before) to another employee. She said, "Well, she's older, brown hair, kind of chunky..." After I picked my jaw up from the floor, I went on. But that conversation has stayed with me for a long time, and I think of it frequently. I'm not sure why. It really bothered me for some reason that I can't really identify. Maybe because of 'short, skinny, blonde' I would now be 'short, older, greyish-blonde, kind of chunky...' Yeah, that's probably it. I guess I just don't like my 'labels' now.
posted by: Peggasus at April 27, 2007 12:04 PM I have to go with Anne, and also Christy -- you've been a big inspiration to me and have indirectly helped to focus my fitness goals by example. You're great! And Anne nails it when she says "hot stuff" is the best compliment -- although I'll take "sexy", "smokin" or "%$&&!" as well, LOL... A couple of months ago I weighed 230 lbs. I'm 5'5" and a muscular, sturdy person who will be really, truly skinny - in the bad sense of the word -- at around 145. This morning I weighed in at 210, which, while still "big" or "obese" or whatever is still PROGRESS that I'm exceptionally pleased about, and which motivates me to continue with my efforts. My workplace includes a lot of other overweight women who have noticed the change and will call me "skinny" "food obsessed" "your shrinking self" and other creative phrases. It's meant to be encouragement and support and there's sometimes a hint of jealousy. Doesn't stop them from eating fried chicken and burgers every day for lunch, and doesn't stop me from eating salad w/grilled chicken and turning down their proferred kit kats and licorice, either. I guess my point is, f&*^ what other people say or think, especially if they're strangers or other people whose opinion really shouldn't matter. You're making yourself healthier and better all the time and if someone chooses to describe that in a potentially negative, socially loaded kind of way... isn't that *their* problem? I know it's easier said than done, trust me, but I hope you get what I mean... posted by: Katie at April 28, 2007 12:19 PM |
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I have lost over 100 pounds, and I get called Skinny now. I know it is meant as a compliment, so even though I am not skinny, I just smile and say thanks. Another word like fit, or healthy might be better, but I don't really think about it much.
posted by: Janice at April 25, 2007 03:33 PM